Blog 8 fall 2019

What is creativity? 

Use of the imagination, original ideas, 

Thinking differently than other people 

Being innovative – pure ideas

Combining and recombining ideas in unique ways 

Thinking more thoroughly 

 

The creative process:

  • When does it happen? All the time 
  • How does it happen? Without working too hard 
  • Doing shit
  • *Marc Rubin has been removed from the group chat* 
  • In groups
  • Relying on outside / different sources 
  • In the shower 🙂
  • The flow state 

 

What is flight? 

  • Life or death 
  • You get shoved out of the nest 
  • Has to be an instinct 
  • Comes naturally (to birds)

Sum total of all internal and external forces 

Emergence: occurs when an entity is observed to have properties or behaviors that its parts do not have on its own

 

Blog Post Part 1 

 

Tenet 1: Interdependence:

The interactive effect of tasks, goals, and feedback combinations. A state in which all firms in a market or players in a game, though in competition, are dependent on the actions and strategies of all the other firms or players in that market or game. 

 

Our simple words: How different aspects all work together, relate to one another, and rely on each other. 

Example: Behaviors in a region are interdependent when it comes to getting ebola. 

Additional Example: Correlation between grain spawn sterility and the resulting bacteria levels in the substrate bags. 

 

Tenet 2: Holism

The idea that all of the properties of a given system—whether physical, biological, chemical, social, economic, mental, or linguistic—cannot be determined or explained by their component parts alone. Instead, the system as a whole determines how the parts behave. 

 

Example: Every input for mushrooms is all worthless but when they come together a valuable product is created. 

Our simple words: The whole make up something greater than the sum of its parts. 

 

Tenet 3: Multifinality

Example: Mushrooms

  1. Jawara gets money and satisfaction from working on the job.
  2. People get mushrooms and more ability
  3. Marc and Belle receiving work experience, satisfaction from the job.

Definition: The same group of inputs is able to result in multiple potentially unrelated end products.  (The whole point of probability).. Subsystems meet goals and contribute to the larger systems goals. 

 

Tenet 4: Equifinality: 

Example: There are multiple ways to grow and oyster mushrooms (3 main ones). 

Example: Multiple groups in GSIF addressing maternal health.

Our simple words: There are many different ways to reach the same end. 

 

Tenet 5: Differentiation: 

Our simple definition: A method of identifying individual components of a large system

 

Example: Small stories building on each other and adding to the larger story. They’re different in that they each engage listeners in different ways and convey different aspects. 

Mushrooms: Three main parts. Spawn. Substrate Pasteurization. Growth. All of these parts represent interdependence, differentiation, and holism. 

 

Tenet 6: Regulation

Our definition: ensure that the system is actually working and all stakeholders are accountable to each other and the system

 

Our simple definition: keeping people accountable

Example: How to ensure that Jawara is doing what he needs to be doing. 

 

Tenet 7: Abstraction: Basically your start at the nitty-gritty detail of either an idea or point and then taking steps back until you can begin to grasp how things play together.

Example: We believe that bats transmit Ebola to humans, but this comes from the fact the bats are in the woods and have the disease, they can give it to multiple animals before it even makes it to a human. Then you have the health works trying to solve this from a urban point of view, then you can go higher all the way back to the ministry of health planning. When you look at how  bats lead Ebola to Humans, you can get different answers from different views.

 

Tenet 8: Leverage Points

Definition: The point(s) that would create the most change. Small shifts in one thing can produce big changes in everything. 

Example: Malnutrition, if we give them what they need, they will do better in school, in life, won’t have as many problems in relation to health.

 

Examples: The barriers to entries of the mushroom market are all non-tangible like knowledge. All the inputs are waste products so the biggest leverage point is education. 

 

Part Two

The Concept of Emergence: 

In simple words the concept of emergence is when someone’s creativity has caught on and begins to spread. Something new is becoming popular or well known enough for it to be considered “a thing”. An example of an emergent system that creates a sustainable and scalable social venture is…. Exactly what all of us are trying to do. GRO mushroom project is an emergent system because no one has been able to thus far create a zero energy or zero waste way to grow mushrooms on agwaste. Their venture is sustainable in that it works of waste and doesn’t negatively impact the environment. They’re still working on the scaleable part but the idea is the slow spread of ideas and the sale of GRO mushrooms structures. 

 Solutions to Water Hyacinth:

 

The solution to the problem: 

  1. Advertise you are paying people to collect it for you. We will pay individuals the market rate for the amount of hyacinth. This will mean that people who collect it will make money, and they will provide the Entrepreneur with what she needs. This may slightly increase the price of the briquettes or composite but will solve the problem for collecting and put the community at ease. Instead of the entrepreneur owning all parts of the briquette market she will allow the community to supply her giving them an idea of control and benefit that they did not see before. This won’t significantly change any of the process in any way. Additionally, we could also only accept less hydrated hyacinth, which cuts done on the cost of the Entrepreneur in processing.

Blog Post 7

Partnerships:

  1. Jawara
    1. What constituted the partnership?
      1. He is an employee of the venture
    2. How did the partner help you? How did you help them?
      1. He runs our day to day activities growing mushrooms and he is our hands on the ground with our experiment.
    3. Was this a symbiotic relationship?
      1. Yes because we paid him.
    4. What would help strengthen this partnership and make it more equitable?
      1. Communication is occasionally hard. We would do better with more time spent training him.
  2. John Pecchia
    1. What constituted the partnership?
      1. We corresponded with him over email about growing mushrooms and visited Penn State
    2. How did the partner help you? How did you help them?
      1. He gave advice on what we were doing wrong and gave us ideas on how to adapt our processes. He got nothing other than a hand in creating impact
    3. Was this a symbiotic relationship?
      1.  No
    4. What would help strengthen this partnership and make it more equitable?
      1. Involve him more as our actual advisor. He could go to Salone. We can give him credit for stuff
  3. Matthew Sicher
    1. What constituted the partnership?
      1. He is a knowledgeable grower in PA
    2. How did the partner help you? How did you help them?
      1. He gave us a lot of knowledge and ideas about how we can improvise with the materials that we have.
    3. Was this a symbiotic relationship?
      1. No, Matthew is just nice.
    4. What would help strengthen this partnership and make it more equitable?
      1. We did buy some spawn from him so that is nice. We can also give him more credit for his help or involve him further.
  4. World Hope
    1. What constituted the partnership?
      1. They support us on the ground. We found them through Khanjan’s relationship with them in Sierra Leone
    2. How did the partner help you? How did you help them?
      1. We help them by bringing technical knowledge/knowhow and they help us with implementation and Sierra Leone specific knowhow
    3. Was this a symbiotic relationship?
      1. Yes
    4. What would help strengthen this partnership and make it more equitable?
      1. Continuing our work and scaling up our venture so that their goal of impact can be met
  5. Sheku
    1. What constituted the partnership?
      1. He was a nearby carpenter.
    2. How did the partner help you? How did you help them?
      1. We employed him and he provided invaluable services for a good price.
    3. Was this a symbiotic relationship?
      1. Yes
    4. What would help strengthen this partnership and make it more equitable?
      1. Sheku wants us to employ his kids after he is too old to help us.

 

What is the larger cause that our project stands for!

Ideal world: Everyone has the tools to create circular ecosystems to create food and have absolutely zero waste. Increasing access to healthy nutritious foods.

EVERYTHING IS MUSHROOMS

everything

Our Coalition

  • Name : Earth Food
  • Stakeholders

Our team, World Hope, SLARI, the malnutrition team, investors

  • Opinion leaders

Us, world hope, community leaders and local farms who we’ve helped, spread the world through personal connections.

  • Policymakers

SLARI, local governments

  • Resource partners

Farmers around Sierra Leone or anyone with the desire to grow, anyone producing waste, WWOOF, Farmers from more privileged areas

  • Signaling partners

Who would add legitimacy: World Hope and SALRI

 

What we do:

We have lots of organizations that we can draw from to help organize sustainable farming. The scope of the coalition is Sierra Leone.

Teach countries (starting in Sierra Leone) how to properly utilize their resources and their countries’ ecosystem to create healthy foods in a sustainable way.

This would be a grassroots movement so to speak. Educating locals and spreading through word of mouth and proximity.

Once we have developed successful practices for farming our organization would grow and develop a strategy to impact regulation.

Blog Post 6 2019

Team Name: Mushroom Team

Goals

Project (Big G)

Metrics of success – mushrooms sold

Funding EPA P3 grant finishing – made into a more well rounded proposal to use for other sources

Additionally – publish a paper in the spring

Personal (Small g)

Belle: I’ve had this idea that my self worth lies in how I’ve impacted or changed the world after I die. And this project allows me to personally fulfill dreams and prepare myself for working in the real world and having a life after college.

Marc : I’ve always believed that as humans we have a duty (wide duty) to make the world a better place by helping those around us. Go Kant!

Roles

We are equally responsible for each deliverable. Except Marc is responsible for keeping track of expenses and the team budget. Belle is responsible for all writing.

Our easiest avenue to effectively communicate is in person talking.

Procedures

Decisions should be agreed upon by both parties.

Effective meetings need to have a planned start and end time.

Belle scribes.

We should meet twice a week. Expect quick responses and flexibility with times.

Relationships

Very different programs and types of thinking. Different interests and skill sets. Different political alignments. This plays to over all team strength because we work well together.

 

 

Blog post 5 fall 2019

The facts:

  • Neem is indigenous to India and is considered sacred
  • neem used extensively over the past 2,000 years for medicinal purposes, food production, toiletries, fuel, and pesticides. 
  • Neem products used widely across India and the industry as a whole employs many poor people
  • Chetan operates a small business of neem tree products
  • Chetan’s family has owned this business for the last seven generations
  • The business employs 60 people in different functions
  • Despite being familiar with over 200 applications of the tree and its derivatives, Chetan does not know the exact name of the neem seed extract, Azadirachtin. 
  • Ten years ago, Tom Johnson (OOPS) discovered the neem seeds’ use as a potent pesticide. 
  • Tom received a patent for the pesticide formula and brought the product to market
  • They have the worldwide patent and financial capital to manufacture and sell the product on a large scale.
  • People are likely to prefer buying products from US companies over small Indian cottage, affecting chetans business

 

The stakeholders

  • OOPS
    • Prof: Make a shit ton of cash
    • Gain huge market share
    • Personal: Make a shit ton of cash
  • Chentan
    • Prof: Keep his employees 
    • Personal:
  • Chentan’s employees 
    • Prof:
    • Pers:
  • Other indian growers of neem trees
    • Prof: money/job security
    • Personal: feeding families, social worth
  • Competing companies (chetan could help them instead)
  • Consumers in india

 

Start pushing the other products they manufacturer such as skin creams, contraceptives and lamp oil.

• Ethical or principal code: Duty-based thinking. This solution respects people as ends in themselves.
• Pros: Chetan won’t have to fire employees, they will still have an income, continue to produce profitable neem products.
• Cons: Lose market share because they are losing the pesticide. Business may struggle until other products rise in popularity.

2. Chetan can suggest a merge with OOPS
• Ethical or principle code: Utilitarianism. This solution aims to produce the greatest overall good for all affected.
• Pros: Chetan won’t have to fire employees, CSR for OOPS.
• Cons: Chetan can’t function independently, have to rely on OOPS for decision making

3. Chetan finds loopholes in the US patent. They then choose to alter formula to make it slightly different from what is currently patented by OOPS.
• Ethical or principle code: Virtue. This solution aims to exercise appropriate justice and maintains integrity for Chetan.
• Pros: Produce an environmentally friendly product that is similar to OOPS, won’t have to fire employees.
• Cons: still cannot produce it as cheaply as OOPS.

Fall 2019 Blog 4

Ethical Decision-Making and Grassroots Diplomacy Case 3: Sept 17

 

  1. The facts:
  • the growth of ~35% of the children is stunted due to poor nutrition
  • Gruel currently made of corn and bananas 
  • Mothers believe that gruel is effective 
  • HIV/AIDS is bad if this region
  • More breastfeeding = higher chance to get HIV/AIDS
  • Mother’s think gruel works
  • Just received a grant
  • 500 women are involved 
  • Crops used can cause health issues because of pesticides
  • Ween off children at 6 months of age
    • Basically more time is bad
  • Women are skeptical of early weaning
  • Cash crops are: maize, sorghum, cassava, several varieties of legumes (dried beans), French beans, coffee, pineapple, bananas, pumpkins, tomatoes, carrots, kale, white (Irish) potatoes, and sweet potatoes
  • Few women were tested for hiv/aids 
  • Women from the coop grow the food and then dry it so that it lasts longer. 
  • Goal of coop is to have a shelf stable porridge product that weens kids off of mothers milk 

 

What is a production coop? 

 

What is the ethical issue here?!?!

Should we feed the children pesticides through porridge or let them drink breast milk 

 

  1. Stakeholders

Mothers

Professional- An effective solution that keeps their children from getting HIV/AIDS while keeping them nutritious

Personal- They want their kids to be healthy and safe…….

Potential Women’s cooperative

  • Personal- want to make a positive impact 
  • Professional- bring in stable income to support families

Infants involved  

Personal – Want to be healthy and grow up healthy

Professional – none

Innovators

Professional- they want a porridge that is nutritious and that the coop is doing well. They want to make an impact. I.e. they want people to use their product and they want to people to be healthy and safe 

Personal- Recognition, basically the same as the professional 

Local government 

Professional- potential to profit if people are healthier/economic gain, social capital gain

Personal- happier and healthier residents, better quality of life, 

Local Farmers

Professional- Might lose business if their crops are no longer used for gruel/Might gain business if their products ARE used for the gruel

Personal- 

 

  1. Solutions

Utilitarian- Give kids porridge, forget about pesticides. HIV is a more serious issue

Pros: Kids are much less likely to get HIV and get the nutrients from the porridge

 

Cons: possibly poison kids with pesticides! yay!

 

Deontology – Give children porridge that it sourced from all natural farms no matter the time and resource cost 

Pros: All food is sourced from organic farms, nobody will get sick and will be well nuritioushed. 

 

Cons: more expensive/more work

 

Solution 3: educate?

Pros: At least allow mothers to make informed decisions about their children. Ultimately it is up to them. 

 

Cons: Parents often make the wrong decisions.

 

  1. Our expert says he would mix all 3 together 

 

Virtue based thinking approach 

What are we physically possible for us to do? I.e if we are doing an education thing, how many people? At what cost? 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2881583/

 

Part 2: Grassroots Diplomacy

 

  1. Facts: 
  • Business is thriving
  • Women work for about nine hours every day and earn KES 300 (about $3)
  • Women sell produce grown on their farms to the coop
  • Sold at market rate
  • Women are happy! Saves them time and money. Strong sense of community/identity
  • Women have to give their earnings to their husbands/fathers/brothers
  • Husbands use money for alcohol and “frivolous” things
  • Children in this community are not getting nutrition 
  • You are one of seven members on a leadership committee 
  •  The committee is elected on an annual basis and you have six months left on the committee
  • The other six members of this committee are local women 
  • Women are not opposed to the men taking away their money
  • Women are upset that their hard-earned money is not used to feed their children
  • Women are hopeless/convinced nothing can be done

 

Ethical issue: issue of autonomy/who decides how money is spent

 

twin social outcomes are: improving the nutritional status of children and improving the livelihoods of rural households

We need to:  get the cooperative back on track to meet the twin social outcomes for the

cooperative on a sustainable basis

 

  1. Stakeholders

 

  • Women not on Committee
    • Prof: Make money
    • Social: Feed children, improve livelihood
  • Us as part of the innovators/ community
    • Prof: Achieve both outcomes with no backlash. Our success depends on the success of coop in future 
    • Social: recognition and reputation
  • Committee:
    • Prof: The want the best for the coop and community
    • Social: they want to be reappointed/want more votes
  • Male: secondary stakeholder
    • Pro: 
    • Social: social norms, wants control over household
  • Children of workers
    • Prof: Need nutrients
    • Social: N/A

Fall 2019 Blog 3

 

  • Facts

 

      1. Jack is an American working at a youth center in Kenya for 5 months
      2. 4 children were left out of the ceremonious gift giving
      3. The children blamed the gift failure on Jack
      4. The staff told Jack that if he thought there was a problem he should deal with it
      5. The staff doesn’t want to be seen as child right’s activist and did not care about the gift issue

 

  • Define Problem and Stakeholders

 

      1. Problem 3
        1. The four kids who received hats afterwards feel like they weren’t given the same treatment as people who received hats ceremoniously
        2. Jack is afraid that this situation will hurt his reputation with the children, which could make his 5 months a lot more difficult
        3. The youth center workers do not believe that the four kids receiving hats afterwards isn’t a problem
        4. The youth center thinks that Jack is being a “child rights activist” and is going to start problems by pursuing this situation
      2. Stakeholders
        1. Jack
        2. The youth center
        3. The kids

 

  • Determine and distinguish between the personal and professional motivations of the stakeholders.

 

      1. Youth center employees don’t see the exchange as being unfair. They may not want to be bothered an effort to make everyone happy. Personally, they likely care about the kids and for their well-being but potentially think there are bigger issues within the center. Professionally, they may not want to be criticized by an outsider.  
      2. Jack wants to help the kids as much as possible and be viewed positively during his time here. He also wants to maintain a good relationship with the staff.
      3. The kids don’t want to be seen as in a lower social group than everyone else or made fun of. 

 

  • Formulate (at least three) alternative solutions – based on information available, to have a win-win situation for your relationship and your venture.

 

      1. Administer the same gifts to the 4 children who did not get them originally
        1. Make sure this is in a public place to ensure that they feel respected and the “ceremony” aspect is achieved
        2. Pros
          1. Equality is achieved
          2. No difference in what the kids are getting or how they are getting it
        3. Cons
          1. The other kids might get mad that these 4 kids get the same gifts they got + a hat and another ceremony
          2. The youth center workers might get mad for working without them ruining necessary relations
        4. Saves face for the children, Jack and the youth center
        5. Implications on relationships
          1. The relationships between the kids would be salvaged because they would see each other as equals (short term and long term)
          2. The relationship between the kids and Jack would be fixed because the kids would believe Jack cares about them all (short term and long term)
          3. The relationship between the youth center and Jack could be fixed too because Jack would have taken the advice the youth center said and fixed the issue on his own (short term and long term)
        6. Implications on the venture
          1. Long term – Jack could show the initially hurt kids that he went out of his way to make an effort which, in the short term, would get him in better standing with those specific kids and also, long term, strengthen his relationship with all of them, allowing him to be more effective in his work
          2. Short term, his colleagues may be surprised that he took charge which they could potentially view poorly. However, it could show that Jack takes initiative and could be positive for his relationships with his colleagues in the long term.
      2. Give the kids some type of a leadership role in some event in order to make them feel as though they are on the same social level.
        1. Pros
          1. The kids feel equal
          2. Might seem to the staff as though Jack did not see a problem with their opinion and preserve the relationship
        2. Cons
          1. The other kids may feel slighted for not receiving a leadership role
          2. Maybe the kids actually just care about the gifts and will still be upset
        3. Saves face for the kids, Jack, and the youth center
        4. Implications on relationships
          1. Hopefully the relationship between Jack and the children would be fixed because they would know Jack cares about them. However, the children who do not get a leadership role may feel to be second tier.
          2. The relationship between the youth center and Jack may be fixed because Jack solved the solution but it also may be worsened if they feel Jack went behind their backs.
        5. Implications on the venture
          1. Long term– May be extremely helpful to figure out this situation in the beginning so that it does not spiral into something bigger affecting the actual venturelater on 
          2. Short term- There may be some upset between the youth center and Jack because the youth center did not think that this was an issue to begin with.
      3. Work in collaboration with the youth center workers to educate them about the problem in the situation and then plan something nice (but can be small) for the 4 children.
        1. Pros
          1. Not backdooring the youth workers, they will appreciate Jack prioritizing working with them
          2. Teaches the youth workers to better understand and deal with situations like these in the future
          3. The 4 children are receiving something special, and could improve their relationships with both Jack and the workers
        2. Cons
          1. Other kids may be mad bc the 4 kids are getting extra events for them
          2. The youth center staff may tell Jack to “fuck off”
        3. Saves face for Jack, the youth center workers (even though they might not care about that) as well as kind of patching up the relationship with the children
        4. Implications
          1. Short Term
            1. Makes 4 kids feel important/at the same level as the other children, could help them integrate themselves back into the rest of the group
            2. Kids will appreciate Jack doing something for them
            3. Rest of the kids may be mad the 4 kids are getting another event
          2. Long Term
            1. All kids may respect Jack & workers, make the 5 months easier
            2. Workers may appreciate you trying to work with them on that situation, helps your time with them
            3. The health workers may treat the kids better and have better relationships

 

  • Seek additional assistance, as appropriate – previous cases, peers, reliance on personal experience, inner reflection

 

    1. In general people care more about social standing and how others perceive them than they do material objects of minimal monetary worth.

 

Blog 2

Step 1: We know that the case takes place in Lesotho, a small and very poor country completely surrounded by South Africa. The purpose of the study is to understand and track a disease causing pathogen that is known to be present in fresh water sources. The 11 researchers and I want look at how locals store water as well and test the water for this pathogen. The test is quick and easy to do.

Step 2: Some important stakeholders are the community members, researchers, healthcare providers, the government of Lesotho, and the funding sources (like a university or other donors).

Step 3: Motivations

community members: In this specific context, their largest motivations would be their own well being/health and the opportunity to make money.

Researchers: They are likely motivated by their work both in terms of potential societal benefits and social and professional recognition that comes with a project such as this.

Government: They certainly care about the well being of their citizens, but maybe more important to them might be leveraging an impactful project they facilitated into votes and portraying to the outside world a sense of self determination while still seeking necessary help.

Grant funders: They hopefully share the same motivations as the researchers. They should be aligned and in this case I think they likely are.

Healthcare Workers: As professionals, the health of the community is the primary concern.

Step 4: Solutions

Solution 1: Pay anyone who helps you a fair wage for the amount of time they dedicated to your work. This seems like something Kant would approve of (duty based). This would improve relationships with the community and maybe you will get better info. There of course could be complications if people are being payed differently or are unhappy with what you pay them. It could also be costly.

Solution 2: Compensate in means other than money such as meal(s). We called this virtue based. I think this mostly has the same pros as solution 1. The only foreseeable issues are how much people get and any unhappiness they get from not receiving money.

Solution 3: Don’t pay them anything. This is consequence based thinking. In the end this research will likely benefit them and their help is completely voluntary. This will be great in terms of cost. The most problematic consequence of this is that the most helpful people may be unwilling to help for free.

Step 5: In my personal experience, people in these kinds of settings expect to be payed for this kind of work, especially when white people are involved. It always worked well for us to pay them.

Step 6: Based on prior solutions and the facts of the case, solution 1 seems like it would work the best. This is because our data will be better if we ensure that we have the most helpful people working with us. The quality of the data is directly reliant on the quality of the help we get. Our first step would be to determine who we want to work for us wand what a fair wage is.

Step 7: Community members will now likely seek money in the future for any similar work. This could be problematic for other researchers in the future.

 

Blog 1 Fall 2019

1: I learned how to grow oyster mushrooms in Sierra Leone!

I learned that everyone we work has their own unique stories and divulging in them can help improve cross cultural understanding and build lasting relationships.

I learned to be more optimistic. I will never succeed in anything if I think I’ll fail before I even start. That comes from my own project but also from observing the other projects and their team members interactions with each other.

2: I learned a lot about the skill of negotiating by practicing such often in the market. It was often easier to negotiate if I made my attempts at a lower price in a less serious manner. In laughing with the vendors about how absurd their overcharge of me was I got lower prices than last year despite the overall rise in prices

My decision making had always been pretty indecisive, but in taking a leadership role this year I realized that I had to make a decision and actually enforce it. Even with Jawara, I think it was helpful to often take the approach of being friends, but when I needed him to do something, I changed my tone so that he knew I was talking as his boss.

If there is one main difference between Krio and English it is the length and specificity of sentences. I often found that the longer I spoke the less people seemed to understand or want to listen. I think giving shorter instructions lead to greater success in communication. Having to think about communication this carefully definitely helped me to improve my communication skills.

3: While I am usually open to trying new things, I have never really been an initiator of it. Even though I had already been to Sierra Leone, many of the things we still had to do were new and uncomfortable. I think I got much better at initiating something that I might not be in fact fully comfortable with. It is the only way to keep growing as a person.

Over the semester we talked a lot about improvisation and expecting things to go wrong. Our project especially is very materials oriented, which can be a huge problem considering few if any of the resources we had is the USA are available in Sierra Leone. At mountaintop we also talked to a Matt Sicher about his mushroom farm and how you can adapt a wide variety of materials to suit your needs. We applied this exactly in every aspect of the project

I learned a lot about putting trust in other people and yourself/what you know. In the last week I was pessimistic about us getting mushrooms even though I knew we did exactly what we were trying to do in terms of processes and that enough time had not passed. Belle however was optimistic that we would be successful.